Darned if you do, damned if you don't. You need to block fascists but need to stop short of fascist levels of intolerance or else you're the fascist. Strive not with monsters, as Nietzsche said.
I understand that there are different opinions and priorities but consider that a lot of people to be entirely lacking in any virtue and compassion restricted only by the power that they do not (currently) possess.
To empower those folk is how you end up with nazis, which is the point.
Unnecessary reference to Nazism. I agree with your general idea, but being intolerant and unempathetic isn't something only some people in the 30s started to do.
Below average empathy is pervasive and a pretty common human characteristic, like being tall or having curly hair.
The use of supposed mental illness being used to discount any opposing belief is terrifying. Did you ever stop and consider that maybe empathizing in this situation is wrong?
For B12? You do know that animals don’t produce B12, but microorganisms (that can be found in soil and untreated water) and that farmed animals eat B12 supplemented food?
So no, people don’t need meat. Not for B12, or for proteins or for iron or for anything else.
Do people want to eat meat? That’s a different story.
If you want to turbo optimize your life and give up caffeine so your body can absorb non-heme iron be my guest. It’s far simpler to eat as omnivores as humans were meant to be, especially with so many factors on the scale against your favor.
Humans weren't "meant" to eat any single way, for what it's worth. We have the good fortune of possessing exceptionally flexible diets, but we can survive readily on many variations of what's possible.
Something people frequently overlook (or are unaware of) is that in much of the world, animal agriculture utilizes B12 supplementation. This is part of why there is B12 in commercial animal products. Without that, B12 levels in commercial animal products would be lower. Further, people who eat animal products aren't guaranteed to avoid deficiencies.
The idea that we "need" meat is thoroughly debunked by decades of excellent, high-quality research. What we "need" as far as B12 goes is essentially less sanitary environments; we (and animals we ate) used to get enough from food and water which wasn't clean by current standards.
For me it makes no difference whether I consume animal products or not. I’ve consumed no animal products in about five months now, and aside from needing to spend a bit longer looking at labels when I first started, now I know what I’m doing I spend no more or less time on food.
I take a big multivitamin in the evening and that’s it.
Excess liver consumption is a risk factor for vitamin A toxicity though, and the B12 amount varies wildly. Red meat consumption also increases cancer risk. It’s safer to take supplements from a reputable source.
Theres probably lots of cheese that you could say the same about that is well enjoyed. That said, I don't know if the whale skin I had could be called "good" to my taste. It was beluga I think, from the Canadian arctic. What was striking though was how sour it was and the strong taste of ascorbic acid. With a very chewy texture.
It's technically correct that we need some animal products. The big one I can think of is crude oil. It's from animals long dead and also used to make plastics. Not sure if we count insects as animal products but the work of bees helps pollinate our crops. We don't eat the bees but we do take advantage of them and breed them to go around and pollinate crops.
IIRC that's mostly from plants and algae, and definitely can be substituted with things made purely from plants and algae.
However, I was replying to someone who said specifically "meat", and crude oil isn't meat.
> Not sure if we count insects as animal products but the work of bees helps pollinate our crops. We don't eat the bees but we do take advantage of them and breed them to go around and pollinate crops.
If you're that expansive, humans are also animals, and we also rely on each other's labour.
Very true, but you know idealism, denial and delusion is a thing. Many will literally die rather than come to terms with the 'fact' that every human (without exception) needs some animal products.
To the best of my knowledge, the last time I consumed any meat (which is what you're agreeing with to begin, even though you later say the much more general "animal products" which includes milk), was on a 2015 trip to Kenya, where the cook somehow randomised the ingredients in everyone's sandwiches (I asked for a "cheese and pesto" sandwich, my cheese was switched with someone else's chicken), and the time before that was 2009, where my vegetarian lasagna was switched with someone else's beef lasagna.
Even with those accidents, twice in 13 years doesn't seem like a "you're delusional if you think you can go without" kind of a thing.
Also, full on vegans are a thing. I'm not one (cheese is too tempting), but it's not crazy like breatharians or whatever.
I feel obliged respond. I'll try and put a short useful response. ( It becomes a little tiring to give an elaborate, well thought out response when one repeatedly encounters what one sees as irrationality).
- I have _never_ see a vegan thrive (health wise) in the long run.
- Many 'honest' vegans admit occasionally binge eat animal products - in your case cheese.
- May 'vegans' lie outright
- There are lot of ex-vegans out there, some of them who were truly committed. Search for them on the web and you will find them.
- https://www.beyondveg.com/ has information from people who probably tried being vegans from the sixties. Grandpa may have some wisdom that you may not be aware of.
Vegan doesn't mean automatically being healthy. Vegan is mainly about being cruelty free as much as possible, as killing and exploiting animals is cruel.
By adopting a plant based whole food diet you can be healthy and at the same time reduce your carbon footprint and damage to our biosphere.
Just don't eat Pringles and drink Coke all day (technically being vegan).
All of that data is suspect. About 2 decades back I used to believe that that at lest some people can thrive without any animal products.
If you thought that a large number of experts (docs in this case) collectively cannot get it wrong , you are I have a different judgment to our fellow simians....
What data? I didn’t mention any data… and you didn’t you either btw.
I posted some examples negating your absolute statements.
Do some ppl need animal products because of medical reasons? Peobably.
But claiming that humans needs animal products to live and thrive is quite the statement. Several national health organisation say otherwise. They say a plant based diet can be healthy with careful planning. Are they wrong as well?
Some other anecdotal evidence… myself. I’m on a animal product free diet and did some blood work… my doc says I should continue doing whatever I’m doing.
>But claiming that humans needs animal products to live and thrive is quite the statement. Several national health organisation say otherwise. They say a plant based diet can be healthy with careful planning. Are they wrong as well?
Yes they are. If consensus is your only way you determine if a piece of information is correct, they you and I can never agree.
>Don't call me a vegan. I'm vegetarian. That means choosing no meat, no more, no less.
Partially my fault in the way I phrased my sentence. I was referring to vegans in general. Not you in particular. ( buddy, where's the benefit of doubt, if you assumed I did not know the difference?)
>I'm older than I think you think I am. And both my grandfathers died before I was born.
If you occasionally eat animal products you will survive(or even do well), Again my point is lost, my point being that there is more than a little to to be learnt from people who have attempted veganism for decades.
The delivery of my message may not be perfect or even crude, but the bare minimum information is there, including the link I put, where you will end up spending days if you are not familiar with aspects of nutrition. Look past me - and I'm sure if you are skeptical enough of any conventional nutritional wisdom, you will learn a _lot_ .
Being vegetarian is extremely unhealthy, drives the obesity epidemic, and is far more likely to cause individuals to become depressed. Good luck getting heme iron, carnitine, carnosine, taurine, creatine, B12, Vit D, and DHA in a meat free diet.
Culture seeps into toys, and firearms culture is back in a big way in America. I blame the federal assault weapon ban and 9/11 for popularizing the modern tactical firearm community.
> I blame the federal assault weapon ban and 9/11 for ...
Small picture...kinda maybe. Bigger picture - I'd say it's far more due to widespread social / economic insecurity. And the culture wars that a lot of American "leaders" have found it personally profitable to whip up.
For many people who feel insecure - talking about guns, handling guns, firing guns, etc. can provide neurochemical "benefits" that you probably couldn't match with any sort of pill. But the downsides, either over time or at scale, are probably as bad as mass consumption of mood-management substances would be.
