Right, because geeks should be fighting other geeks, for some mystery reason, rather than going somewhere where there is grown-up supervision, safety precautions and people who Know What They Are Doing.
Lousy technique - check. Out of shape guys - check. Amazing size mismatches - check. Hard floor so that the first time someone manages a decent throw or slam, someone can break something - check.
All of these 'Fight Clubs' I've ever seen usually revolve around a couple larger guys using this whole thing as a venue for somewhat sexually charged sadomasochism with their smaller buddies. There's a reason that they're not walking in the door of their local boxing/Muay Thai/MMA/BJJ club instead...
Sure, they sound melodramatic, cheesy and sentimental talking about their fight club. But at least they're out there doing it, venting, and participating in some mostly rules-free shenanigans.
And "sexually charged" is the condescending weenie's way of simultaneously saying the participants are closeted homosexuals, and that being gay is a bad thing.
Naysayers manage to anger me and tire me out, all at the same time.
> But at least they're out there doing it, venting, and participating in some mostly rules-free shenanigans.
This is unnecessarily dangerous. You can go to a Muay Thai class, train up for a few months and kick three shades of shit out of each other if you want to. The difference is that with experienced teachers who will show you how to avoid injuries, the likelihood of serious accidents goes down.
Exposing yourself to unnecessary risk when you have safe alternatives isn't manly, it's stupid.
> ...participants are closeted homosexuals, and that being gay is a bad thing.
No one said being gay was a bad thing. Repressing gay feelings and letting them out through violence on the other hand isn't so great IMO.
> Exposing yourself to unnecessary risk when you have safe alternatives isn't manly, it's stupid.
Sometimes it's OK to just be stupid, and uneducatedly kick the shit out of each other, as long as cries of "Uncle" are respected. The lack of framework and authority is important for some types of catharsis.
> Repressing gay feelings and letting them out through violence on the other hand isn't so great IMO.
My point is that whenever guys roughhouse, some chronic non-participant will always call it homoeroticism, and since that sounds like a good, intellectual reason to justify their nonparticipation, other bystanders will smugly agree. It's a cheap jab.
> Sometimes it's OK to just be stupid, and uneducatedly kick the shit out of each other, as long as cries of "Uncle" are respected. The lack of framework and authority is important for some types of catharsis.
To each his own I suppose. Actually I felt this when going from Kendo to BJJ. Kendo being a bit more traditional Japanese and regimented. It was incredibly refreshing being thrown into the deep end with seemingly little structure and to train to Cypress Hill and Slipknot.
Still, I'm of the opinion that a bunch of dudes kicking the crap out of each other in a garage is a step too far.
> My point is that whenever guys roughhouse, some chronic non-participant will always call it homoeroticism, and since that sounds like a good, intellectual reason to justify their nonparticipation, other bystanders will smugly agree. It's a cheap jab.
If you think it's OK to just be stupid in this context you have no idea what you're talking about. If they need catharsis, I suggest they beat up a pillow while screaming about their Daddy, or their ex-wife, or whatever their major malfunction is.
It stops being 'ok' and safe when you have a bunch of idiots who don't know what they're doing. For example, when one idiot heel-hooks another idiot and idiot #2 decides to tough it out (thinking a rotational leg lock can be resisted like an armbar for a while), idiot #2 is likely going to spend some quality time with a surgeon. When idiot #3 decides that a crucifix is a perfectly good takedown response because they saw it in the UFC, idiot #4 is going to spend two weeks with a funny feeling in his neck. etc. etc... I can populate this list out to about idiot #20 or so, striking and grappling. There are a lot of bits of the human body that just don't fix themselves; worth thinking about before trying this stuff on.
As for chronic non-participant, well, I've been rolling around in the guard and the mount with other guys since 1995 (Judo, submission grappling, BJJ) without any gay panic. And I've seen my fair share of creepazoid 'fight clubs' where there's 1-2 bigger guys who are (a) rubbish grapplers and (b) strangely interested in rolling with weaker, smaller, prettier guys, so it's not such a 'cheap jab'.
The likelihood of serious accidents goes down, but it doesn't go down to zero.
So choosing a no-rules barred fight club versus a boxing ring is a matter of line drawing, and judgement calls.
Many people draw the line at no fighting at all, and call all boxers "stupid". Is that fair? And if it isn't, why is it fair for you to call Fight Clubbers stupid simply because they're willing to expose themselves to more risk than you?
Fight Club isn't a direct equivalent of Boxing/Muy Thai/etc. with merely added risk of injury.
There are lots of ways to go about free climbing a rock face, and many ways to make it safer or more dangerous. Most climbers I know are extremely safety conscious and go to great length minimizing the risk they put themselves in.
Agreed. My family climbs outdoors probably 150+ days a year, including bouldering, sport climbing, and trad climbing. While I've done some things that some might consider dangerous, it really is about minimizing risk and being in control of the situation. Certainly, it is still dangerous, but, again, much of what we do attempts to minimize the danger.
I am far more fearful when I see people randomly scrambling without any regard for their situation. I've seen people get themselves in really bad situations because they don't assess things and think about consequences.
Sure, but it'd be a hell of a lot safer to climb up the back slope of a mountain or run around the block. My point is that everything has varying degrees of challenge, risk, thrill, etc and these 'fight club' guys have chosen theirs.
> But at least they're out there doing it, venting, and participating in some mostly rules-free shenanigans.
You're obviously starting from the viewpoint that this is a noble activity. That's not necessarily the case. Fight Clubs are romanticized, and who hasn't wanted to try to put one together after watching the film or reading the book, but it's only awesome until some guy shatters a cheekbone or something.
As the saying goes, the only place a gunfight is romantic is in a James Bond novel.
I actually started from the viewpoint that I hate all the hating that goes on around here sometimes, and worked backward from there. I don't feel strongly about fight clubs one way or the other.
Yeah. Your last paragraph. There's a massive difference between this kind of thing and going to an organised club where you have to take a swing at a stranger who has a good capacity to hand your ass to you.
I get what they're trying to do but there's no comparison between playfighting in someone's garage and training up as a boxer and sparring in a ring in terms of the benefits for your esteem and confidence (as well as fitness).
Also, I've done a fair bit of boxing in and out of clubs, and I'd _never_ swing on someone unless they had headgear and I was in gloves. If you know what you're doing, you understand a handful of landed punches is going to leave some decent damage on a person. The problem when you don't know what you're doing is you're just as likely to fluke a shot / not pull a punch up early enough from doing some serious damage.
Kudos in spirit, but just join a club and work with professionals ffs. You lose so many psychological and physical benefits taking this approach.
Ironically of course, headgear and gloves are known to be the reason more boxers are affected by long term problems than people who bare knuckle spar.
You also wouldn't hit someone in the head with your fist if you know what you are doing because you would probably shatter a knuckle, hence, historically, bare-knuckle bouts were about slowing and draining your opponents energy until they couldn't get up from heavy body blows than knockouts.
It allows you to absorb a larger number of heavy blows to the head without showing any outward damage. There is an argument that the risk of brain damage is therefor greater because the bouts go on longer. I personally haven't read any studies on the matter so I can't comment on the medical validity. In practice I prefer to fight without headgear. This is completely subjective but I feel sharper afterwards, whereas 6-8 rounds with headgear leave me foggy for a day or two.
It is interesting. Technically it should be the same amount of energy transferred but without localised damage (eg, concentration of force through a knuckle into an area of bone or tissue). The head will still be jarred, so your point is pretty solid.
Regardless, though, in this specific example - if one of these guys throws a stray fist to the mouth or jaw (not so much for body shots because they're not exactly doing much of a job of it), its likely to break something, and if they are boxing in a training only setting or socially they're not going to be taking enough blows for concussion / brain damage to be a real issue.
Lousy technique - check. Out of shape guys - check. Amazing size mismatches - check. Hard floor so that the first time someone manages a decent throw or slam, someone can break something - check.
All of these 'Fight Clubs' I've ever seen usually revolve around a couple larger guys using this whole thing as a venue for somewhat sexually charged sadomasochism with their smaller buddies. There's a reason that they're not walking in the door of their local boxing/Muay Thai/MMA/BJJ club instead...