> We are tired of being told we're socialy awkward idiots who need to be manipulated to work... because none of the 10 managers on the project can do... Programming, Motherfucker.
Developers are better at self-organizing than people think. That is the real driving force in modern software. You can eliminate all the ceremonies of scrum and still have a functioning team. You can remove the scrum master and in some cases even the product manager and still have a functioning team.
Despite popular belief: developers CAN understand the product. In some cases developers can understand the product better than a product manager can. Also, developers can have a good approximation to what the customer wants, even without talking to the customer, by just looking at analytics data, log aggregations and bug reports.
The modern incarnation of agile gives too much power to product people and disempowers engineers, turning companies into tech debt mills. The original incarnation of agile empowered engineers and allowed them to collectively negotiate with the product manager.
Agreed. Original agile connected developers and customers through valuing sw features. Today's agile is whip-cracking with the value of features obscured from developers who waste customer time doing unjustifiable work. It's more of a social game than one that benefits customers, so it can not last forever.
Thanks. I think you've done a better work at describing the situation than I did.
The original agile manifesto emphasized collaboration with the customer. Scrum defined roles such as product manager and scrum master, and then the industry injected even more roles in between the customer and the developer...
Fast forward to 2021, we have "agile" developers that have never met a customer. So much for customer collaboration.
> Also, developers can have a good approximation to what the customer wants, even without talking to the customer,
Yoep, sure, maybe we even don't need clients. Just developers creating products for themselves. Or just coding for the sake of coding. I've seen that too mamy times. That's why we need product people.
The largest software companies in existence were born during a time when the role of product manager did not even exist.
Just like the largest corporations in existence became profitable and expansive before they hired MBAs.
Product managers and MBAs are the best examples of the Texas Sharpshooter cognitive fallacy. You shoot into a wall and then paint a target around it. Being successful at those roles is about painting targets around any successful initiative and claim it was your idea.
Powerpoint presentations are not reality, picking up the customer service phone, auditing the code, talking to internal and external users and keeping in touch with reality is.
This parody site is a fair characterization of what the current situation is: http://programming-motherfucker.com/
My favorite quote there is:
> We are tired of being told we're socialy awkward idiots who need to be manipulated to work... because none of the 10 managers on the project can do... Programming, Motherfucker.
Developers are better at self-organizing than people think. That is the real driving force in modern software. You can eliminate all the ceremonies of scrum and still have a functioning team. You can remove the scrum master and in some cases even the product manager and still have a functioning team.
Despite popular belief: developers CAN understand the product. In some cases developers can understand the product better than a product manager can. Also, developers can have a good approximation to what the customer wants, even without talking to the customer, by just looking at analytics data, log aggregations and bug reports.
The modern incarnation of agile gives too much power to product people and disempowers engineers, turning companies into tech debt mills. The original incarnation of agile empowered engineers and allowed them to collectively negotiate with the product manager.