That's not correct. If it were true then there would not be high case numbers in countries with very high vaccination rates, but there are.
UK data shows that vaccinated people are more likely to get COVID than unvaccinated people at this point. You cannot argue that vaccination makes you less likely to catch it with figures like that - it's just a made up talking point to try and justify deeply unwise and unethical mandates.
"But you can't be a vector of transmissible diseases" what exactly did you not understand about your own statement? Are you allowed to be a vector or not?
Do you want to live in temperature-controlled rooms, monitored by the government to ensure that no transmissible diseases are around?
You may have a knee-jerk reaction to my question, thinking it has no basis in reality. Meanwhile, in Australia:
They're going to force people who quarantine at home (rather than a government-mandated quarantine "hotel" with guards) to install and use an app. Facial recognition, GPS tracking in your own home. And it will randomly ping you, and if you don't respond within 15 minutes it'll send the police to your house to conduct an in-person quarantine check. Source:
It's not far off from your premise that a totalitarian regime would make this control the norm in the name of "don't be a vector of transmissible diseases."
The government could deliver meals to you! And let you out for exercise once a day as long as you stay within a few miles of your box! Does this still sound delusional? Those are effectively the terms that have already been imposed on people in Australia over the last year. They can arbitrarily lock you in your apartment building for up to weeks, no one allowed to leave. Sources:
"For six days, only one person from a household will be allowed to leave home each day, and only for essential reasons, authorities said. Schools, universities, cafes and restaurants are closed, weddings and funerals are banned and mask-wearing is mandatory.
“We want to go hard, go early, but get out of it as quickly as we can,” State Premier Steven Marshall said of the measures."
This is from last year by the way. They went hard but didn't get out of it at all judging by what's still the policy in Australia. And over the last year they still had their requirement about not leaving far from your box (oops I mean house) when exercising. Nobody could leave certain cities, even.
These examples are just scratching the surface of why it's naive to formulate your worldview based on a moral righteousness about "don't be a vector for disease." It's dangerous rhetoric even if it feels good in online posting to be "better" than others this way. Don't buy into the dishonest media narrative about "vaxxed vs unvaxxed."
This is called slippery slope argument. George Washington ordered his troops to be vaccinated. It's been the case for centuries and pretty much why a lot of us are alive now.
There is a mountain of links provided in recent comments I made, showing that it's happening in Australia and that some people are clamoring for a two-tier society. Victoria's premier is straight up saying he wants a "vaccinated economy" through 2023 - effectively banning anyone who doesn't partake, regardless of antibodies, from normal life.
That is not a slippery slope. That is reality staring you in the face. Vaccines are great. These mandates are idiotic for reasons I've thoroughly described and nobody has yet addressed the contentions on their own merit.
I don't care if George Washington in a time of war against the superpower of the time made a desperate gambit against smallpox infection in literal military conflict. None of that changes the reality of things - the vast majority of both countries have antibodies from one source or another. Those antibodies are known to be effective at preventing Delta, with breakthrough cases being rare.
Any mandates that are excluding someone from society or employment (outside of hospitals) are a mistake. We simply don't need them. We have already reached far beyond the 60-70 percent threshold Fauci and other public servants were saying would be required for herd immunity / endemic covid.
Your response is basically just justifying everything in Australia, the tyrannical overreach happening in other countries (including some would say in the USA with the recent Biden mandate on corporations). These things are NOT NECESSARY, on the very terms established by Fauci and co over the entire last year.
So explain in more detail how it's a slippery slope when (per all the links I've shared about Australia). Or explain to me why these public servants are ignoring reality and not making admissions about antibodies.
It's rather strange when someone can see all these links and their only real response is to try to justify it by calling out some rhetorical fallacy even though there wasn't one. What is this, high school debate class? I sourced my claims about what is literally happening down under, and it's not a slippery slope to understand history or to make noise when the alarm bells are going off.
Anyone wanting to do this doesn't need to know someone else's choices except by asking in private. Feel free to distance yourself from anyone not meeting your conditions. Whereas in general public, wear a mask and social distance.
Imposing these "rights" onto the general public is Nanny State hall monitoring on steroids, enacted and enforced by people who...we no longer have any reason to trust. Why can't we trust them? Because their entire schpiel over the last year about getting to herd immunity and endemic covid has gone out the window as of late. They are dragging their feet on acknowledging reality. Here's sources explaining why:
"More than 80% of Americans have coronavirus antibodies acquired through infection or vaccination, according to a new study of over 1.4 million blood donations across the U.S."
Almost all of those can be very bad for children. Covid, not so much. There isn't a reason to take the vaccine if you are under 30. And none of you are under 18
As far as I know, Polio is similar to Covid. I believe it is far less contagious compared to Covid. Can you help me understand why Polio is worse than Covid?
"Unvaccinated Victorians to be banned from venues including bookshops, pubs and football matches until at least 2023, while similar restrictions in NSW lift in December"
Pair that with the totalitarian measures enacted in Australia over the last 1.5 years in general (see my comment history). It's time to stop exaggerating the role that past vaccine requirements had when working in hospitals or in specific settings like that. This is much more than that, entailing a complete subversion of individual rights.
Someone supporting these types of measures has bought into the mass media kool-aid pitting "vaxxed vs unvaxxed" which is now dehumanizing a subset of the population so much so that useful fools are not seeing the writing on the wall when a rich politician is saying on absolutely zero basis who can and cannot be included in normal society.
"More than 80% of Americans have coronavirus antibodies acquired through infection or vaccination, according to a new study of over 1.4 million blood donations across the U.S."
"Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot"
When all the facts are considered, it's blatantly clear that these mandates serve no real purpose anymore ON THE TERMS THESE VERY PEOPLE WERE ESTABLISHING. Over the last year, we heard about 60 to 70 percent being the marker for herd immunity and endemic covid. We've reached those numbers through antibodies (regardless of source) already. For months now. Where's the admission from Fauci and Daniel Andrews that their newfound limelight and powers are no longer necessary?
> Don't lie or exaggerate. We do not have "vaccine or fuck off." This has never been done.
Here's NY's.
"Children attending day care and pre-K through 12thgrade in New York State must receive all required doses of vaccines on the recommended schedule in order to attend or remain in school. This is true unless they have a valid medical exemption to immunization. This includes all public, private, and religious schools. A medical exemption is allowed when a child has a medical condition that prevents them from receiving a vaccine. There are no nonmedical exemptions to school vaccine requirements in NYS."
You can tell me all about Australia's supposedly totalitarian setup, but I've got a bunch of Australian relatives who wouldn't willingly trade places with me. My grandma hasn't had to wear a mask the whole time; my uncle just had to for a couple days. My American kids are in their second year of masking at school; one of these things looks like a dystopian movie, but it's not Australia.
(I'll take the Aussie per-capita death rate over the US one, too.)
Your anecdotes about your relatives in Australia are duly noted but disregarded as irrelevant, because it's anecdotes. I have family in Australia too, saying the complete opposite to you. Do you accept that? If not, then I have no reason to accept your anecdotes.
And you'd take the Australian per-capita death rate over the US...along with their tyranny? That's not worth the cost, because in the end something much much worse emerges. Have you seen any of these links yet? Here's what's actually happening in Australia.
They're going to force people who quarantine at home (rather than a government-mandated quarantine "hotel" with guards) to install and use an app. Facial recognition, GPS tracking in your own home. And it will randomly ping you, and if you don't respond within 15 minutes it'll send the police to your house to conduct an in-person quarantine check. Source:
“NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian yesterday announced freedoms for fully vaccinated people once 70% of the state’s eligible population are double dosed. These include being able to go to hospitality venues, hairdressers and gyms, and have five people to your home.”
They can arbitrarily lock you in your apartment building for up to weeks, no one allowed to leave. Source:
Also to address the original point more specifically and directly:
Your links to justify "vaccine or fuck off" as a historical precedent are weak. Nobody is really opposed to requirements for certain schools or working in a hospital with sick people near by. That is a wild departure from what we are seeing in Australia and the USA with the Biden administration attempting to force this onto corporations across the board and Victoria Australia straight up banning "unvaccinated" people from normal life regardless of antibodies. What we see now is people creating a new religion out of their zeal for enforcing conformity when the evidence shows that it's pointless to have that expectation. Look at the links I gave you previously: The antibodies the vast majority of these populations have are effective regardless of where they came from. Both populations have antibodies in far excess to what Fauci and other public servants deemed necessary for ending covid.
If you cannot participate in normal life because of the covid vaccination,, that is a complete departure from what we've done in the USA. And for travel too - I've traveled abroad before and was never expected to provide vaccination records at all. If it was about health, it'd be about antibodies and suspending these mandates immediately once the threshold has been reached. That threshold has been reached since this summer.
And you have the right to say no to any medical procedure