> People would spend their whole day just having coffee with random colleagues, and making a couple of slides. It's nice to relax sometimes, but when I was there it was way too much of that.
I knew a lot of people who got jobs like this after college. I was so very jealous at the time. I was working in a company that was nice, but also wasn’t afraid to tell people when they weren’t meeting expectations. Some of my friends were at companies where they weren’t expected to “ramp up” for the first year. One person I know read “The Four Hour Work Week” and talked his company into letting him work remote, then started traveling the world. He would brag that his entire job was “telling the engineers what to do” and it took him an hour a day because he did it all through email in one sitting.
Years pass, economies evolved, and now it’s harder to get a job. Companies start looking for dead weight and discover people doing jobs that barely contribute, if at all.
A tech company near me looked at their VPN logs (required to interact with their internal services and do any dev work) and discovered a lot of engineers who were only connecting a couple times per month.
By then it’s hard to turn it around. It’s not easy to take people who have become so comfortable not working that the entire idea of urgency is a foreign concept. Ask for some task that should only take an hour or two and they’ll say they’ll have it by early next week. Any request turns into a series of meetings, which have to be scheduled with all participants, which means they can’t start discussing it until Bob is back from vacation next week, so they might have an idea of what’s required by end of month.
At some point you can’t turn it around without making big changes to the people involved. There’s too much accumulated inertia and habit. You have to reorg at minimum and bring in new management, while also making it clear to everyone that their performance is now actually being noticed. It’s hard.
With Intel, I’ve also heard from some ex-employees who left because pay was lagging. Companies with low expectations can feel like they’re getting away with low pay because many people will keep an easy job despite the low pay. It masks the problem, for a while.
> Years pass, economies evolved, and now it’s harder to get a job. Companies start looking for dead weight and discover people doing jobs that barely contribute, if at all.
It sounds like you blame their own lack of effort for losing their jobs. Like, if they would have worked harder, it wouldn't be them on the line.
But the reality is, they did not let the corporations take advantage of them. They turned table and had a good Work-Life-Balance and got paid for it. Yes, maybe it cost them their job. But at the same time, they had one for years, and for many people it would have meant that they had been ready for a change anyway.
Eventually, happiness is a personal measure and what fulfills you is your own desire and the way the people worked, that you talk about, may not be your preference. But it does not sound like they made a poor choice.
I worked my ass off for 20 years. I'm an expert in the field that I work in, but when I had been skipped for raises in three years I said fuck it and put my personal life in front of everything else. I wake up when I want, start my work when I want, work way less than I should. I still don't get no raise, but all my peers and my manager continue to tell me what a great job I do. Now I'm slacking hard, but why should I feel bad, when hard work is not valued? That my boss and peers are happy are a positive thing, but I would not concern myself much, if they were less.
>> But it does not sound like they made a poor choice.
I think the thing that's not obvious to young people is that choices that seem good at any given time may turn out to be poor choices further down the line. The guy who traveled the world while working one hour a day telling engineers what to do over email probably had a great young adulthood. It sounds like he paid for it later, though, by getting laid off and having difficulty finding another job.
This doesn't mean that those who worked their asses off didn't get screwed over, but on average they probably did better professionally - and by proxy, financially.
The seductive failure of doing that is what you choose to invest your saved time in, similar to financial debt.
It’s one thing if someone is iron willed enough to make productive use of their new free time.
It’s different if they use it to play video games and sleep.
Most people, if left to their own devices, will do the latter.
We can say what we want about a hard, challenging job, but it forces us to work and learn. Thus, at the end of it, we have the benefit of that working and learning.
The better question is not “How little work can I get away with doing?” but rather “What will I have at the end of this work?”
One of my background voices is constantly saying "How will you describe your current project in a job interview?". Maybe I add a little spin, maybe I highlight certain aspects, but I always have an idea of how I'd introduce it and how I would answer detailed 'star' style questions about my contributions and results.
I think some people with 'cushy' jobs don't take on this same mentality, perhaps overestimating the security of their current job. “telling the engineers what to do” is not a good starting point and the answers to follow-up questions had better be pretty detailed and convincing.
Agreed. I had a uni roommate who played video games during his internship because he had nothing to do. Struggled to find a job and I think changed careers.
Also interviewed someone my year but we were both a year out of school, same major, roughly same job title, at our first post-undergrad jobs. I was thrown into the deep end and learning a lot. He was buying software licenses. I commend him on sticking it out for a bit but also realizing it was a bad fit.
I have a few people in my network like this too. They would tease me for working too many hours and having a high savings rate while they traveled around the world and spent their bonuses and vests. They struggled to find a job paying $140k/yr while I'm earning almost 4x that.
I knew a lot of people who got jobs like this after college. I was so very jealous at the time. I was working in a company that was nice, but also wasn’t afraid to tell people when they weren’t meeting expectations. Some of my friends were at companies where they weren’t expected to “ramp up” for the first year. One person I know read “The Four Hour Work Week” and talked his company into letting him work remote, then started traveling the world. He would brag that his entire job was “telling the engineers what to do” and it took him an hour a day because he did it all through email in one sitting.
Years pass, economies evolved, and now it’s harder to get a job. Companies start looking for dead weight and discover people doing jobs that barely contribute, if at all.
A tech company near me looked at their VPN logs (required to interact with their internal services and do any dev work) and discovered a lot of engineers who were only connecting a couple times per month.
By then it’s hard to turn it around. It’s not easy to take people who have become so comfortable not working that the entire idea of urgency is a foreign concept. Ask for some task that should only take an hour or two and they’ll say they’ll have it by early next week. Any request turns into a series of meetings, which have to be scheduled with all participants, which means they can’t start discussing it until Bob is back from vacation next week, so they might have an idea of what’s required by end of month.
At some point you can’t turn it around without making big changes to the people involved. There’s too much accumulated inertia and habit. You have to reorg at minimum and bring in new management, while also making it clear to everyone that their performance is now actually being noticed. It’s hard.
With Intel, I’ve also heard from some ex-employees who left because pay was lagging. Companies with low expectations can feel like they’re getting away with low pay because many people will keep an easy job despite the low pay. It masks the problem, for a while.