The Neo costs $200 more than a comparable Windows laptop, but with half the RAM and storage as said comparable Windows laptop.
They're fighting to seize the very specific market segment of "I don't like Windows and don't want to use Linux or a Chromebook, and I'm also poor, but still want to pay a premium price for an underpowered tablet with keyboard glued to it."
Please, by all means do post a link to a comparable new Windows laptop for $400, including a fast GPU, reasonable amount of fast storage (and not counting an SD card or such), a high-DPI monitor, and non-embarassing build quality. I'd love to see this.
The GPU in the Neo isn't particularly fast...nor is the storage. Neo makes loads of compromises to hit $600 with some of it's features. Even for $400 you can get Windows PCs with TWO whole USB 3.0 ports. $400 quickly hits diminishing returns territory.
Twice the storage, twice the RAM, comparable GPU. CPU is a slower in single core, but comparable in multi-core. Faster storage. USB 4, HDMI, multiple USB A ports. Supports more than 1 external monitor. Yep, chassis and screen are worse but it's better in many other ways.
So for $100 less, you get a markedly lower-DPI screen that's 40% dimmer, a slower CPU, hotter running, and a worse chassis. Almost no one's going to be slapping multiple external monitors on either of these. If they did, they might run into the problem where the Acer is often limited to 640x480: https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/733442/have-a-new-a...
That is not remotely in the same category as the Neo.
You get twice as much RAM, twice as much storage. 4x faster storage too. You get a full sized HDMI port. You can do multiple monitors if you need to. It has a fan for better sustained performance. You can plug in a flash drive, mouse, monitor or other external peripheral without a dongle. Oh, and it's actually COOLER running than the Neo.
The Neo costs a $100 more, needs a $30 dongle to connect to 90% of the stuff people have, has half the RAM, half the storage, slower storage. Has considerably worse I/O. But has a better screen and build quality comparable to a MacBook Pro from 2007.
It's different compromises. Personally I'd rather have more RAM, storage and IO than a prettier case and better screen.
The quibbling about ram is strange only because Apple is much better positioned to utilize ram since they are vertically integrated. I produce music and occasionally compile Haskell on my 2016 MacBook with an i3 and 8gigs of ram. So I’m in the 99th percentile power user and a 10 year old machine works great. I bet the new Mac would be even better.
It doesn’t have 8gigs of ram to cheat the consumer. It’s because this company can do 10000 hours of user testing to see what people need to do their normal people things.
No, they're not "better positioned" to utilize memory.
NT has a far better VMM than macOS does and handles OOM significantly better than macOS (and Linux, for that matter).
Look no further than the various Mac subreddits for applications such as TextEdit, Calculator, Safari, and other first and third party applications leaking like a sieve to the point of OOM for multiple versions of macOS at this point.
Not to mention, Macs are sharing that precious memory with the CPU; on those 8GiB machines, leaving 7.5GiB or less (depending on what you're doing) for the kernel to use for non-graphics services.
> NT has a far better VMM than macOS does and handles OOM significantly better than macOS (and Linux, for that matter).
That's one of my great frustrations with Windows. NT is a fine kernel. The userspace on top of that is fucking terrible though.
When people compare "operating systems" they're not comparing the kernel. They're at the most technical comparing the userspace tools shipped with that kernel, and at their most general the "ethos" of the developers that build the ecosystem. The terrible experience on windows of every programing having an installer that pokes around god knows where in the registry is just as much an experience of the Windows operating system as piping curl into bash is on Linux.
> NT has a far better VMM than macOS does and handles OOM significantly better than macOS (and Linux, for that matter).
All of them handle OOM the same way: paging to disk with subsequent thrashing. How can any OS be better than any other in that respect?
If your computing experience leaves much to be desired it’s more-often-than-not the fault of the fact more and more applications are eschewing (admittedly neglected) efficient native platforms and using Electron/WebViews.
…looking at you, Balena Etcher. No-one needs a 200MB front-end for `dd`.
Completely agree. In my current role, I work with a lot more "normal" computer users, and it's helped me have a better understanding of many consumer technologies from different perspectives
I have seen the survey results and work studies for our large enterprise of Mac users, most (not all, but most) have zero change in satisfaction or perceived or objective work performance with 8GB vs 16GB MacBooks. Most users are swapping between outlook, teams and chrome, anything more than an M2 8GB MacBook Pro would be a waste for these users. Disk performance is similar, anything in the M line is more than good enough for 75%+ of our users. Mac screens and keyboards have very high customer satisfaction in our org. Just like 16 GB of RAM, it does not translate to a measurable increase in work performance, but subjectively people report higher satisfaction.
As for cost, the MacBook has a lower total cost of ownership in our organization than a Windows PC at a similar purchase price because: 1) longer OS support timeline from apple means they can be used longer and 2) at the end of their lifespan with us, they have much higher resale value than comparable windows hardware.
Just a different perspective as to why 8GB MacBooks make sense for some users.
I can see exactly one, and it's niche: the ability to safely leave tiny USB-A peripherals like flash drives, wireless dongles, and SFF YubiKeys connected while not in use (not that I'm recommending a YubiKey be left connected to a laptop when not in use).
Hubs are mostly only relevant for docking or increasing the number of ports, given that USB-A to -C adapters are so cheap (assuming they're not bundled with the peripheral in the first place) you can reasonably leave them permanently attached to larger form factor USB-A peripherals.
As for full-sized HDMI, assuming you're not talking about the hellish mini or micro HDMI as alternatives, I'll take USB-C, or even mini DisplayPort, over full HDMI, as both have decent connectors and provide more and better inexpensive options for display connectivity (though admittedly finding good active DisplayPort-to-HDMI dongles can be harder than it should be because chroma subsampling is a thing that's not frequently touched upon in product descriptions).
You're proving the point. The computer you found wins on the specs page for sure. But the proof is in the pudding; Apple makes money hand over fist because they focus on reasonable specs, and quality. The thing that kills a modern laptop is not a slow CPU or RAM on the chip; it's a cheap chassis that breaks. That's what makes people change their computer.
> Apple doesn’t load your computer up with crapware and ads from the five different companies in the supply chain.
No apple prefers to have a monopoly on ads and crapware but they're still there.
The internet is filled with annoyed apple customers who want to debloat their systems:
You didn't read any of those, did you. They're asking about things like, literally: How can I delete the Chess app? How do I disable Spotlight? How do I remove Siri?
Those are not in any way comparable to ads or Candy Crush in the start menu.
I still haven't figured out how to remove Microsoft Store apps from the Start menu in recent non-LTSC versions of Windows 11, even on Enterprise with the Enterprise-only "disable consumer experiences" Group Policy key set.
Suggestion for any Microsofties listening: give me an easy way to override Windows key press-and-release to open the PowerToys Command Palette, and I'll never complain about the Start menu again.
What makes it horrifying? Plastic? Is the only thing that's important the material it's made out of? I think there's many use cases where the Acer would be less horrifying to use than the Neo. Which device would be better for running a Linux VM for CS class homework for example?
Why bother with a VM for Linux on the Acer? Just run it natively. There's almost nothing that actually requires Microsoft anymore, and you'll get better performance.
A vanishingly small number of end users (both PC and Mac) care about how much RAM they have. I'd be willing to bet that at least 75% of PC and Mac laptop owners couldn't even tell you how much RAM they have, or they mistake hard disk storage for RAM or vice versa.
Huh, guess I’ve never worked at a Mac shop big enough to suffer Mac-ruining software. My biggest shop only had about 15,000 employees, so maybe it’s only the large companies enduring that.
You never had GlobalProtect take a multi-Gbps connection down to <20Mbps due to all that userland processing of packets thanks to Apple's lack of vendor kext.
I had a Dell Latitude 7320 from 2022 as a corporate laptop. New it costed well over $2000. It was thermal throttling like crazy and it was even worse when I was on calls. It’s battery wouldn’t last more than an hour and even when you put it to sleep the fan would keep spinning. It would take more than 15 to restart and another 10 for most of the apps to open. It was literally unusable. Meanwhile my M1 MacBook from 2020 is still going strong.
I have a Dell Latitude from 2010 that is still goes strong (albeit it has no more battery). None of my classmates' Apples from that era, or the replacements, or the replacements for those replacements, or the replacements for the replacements of the replacements, are still working.
I also have a Thinkpad from 2000 that still works.
I double checked, the hardware is fine. It's a mix of catastrophic Nvidia drivers and Windows 11 famous lack of optimization. I'm much happier on my 3x cheaper laptop on Linux that can handle three 144hz displays flawlessly on the iGPU.
The irony of your last line. The whole thing of the Neo is that it feels distinctly not glued together—- not true of the $400 “comparables” you have in mind. I’m convinced the people who make these sorts of comments have either never experienced a non-terrible trackpad, or simply don’t care to.
The internet is full of these comments that go for ages in Mac vs PC discussions, but with the Neo pricing the arguments are breaking apart. Seeing the PC arguers bring up the being poor argument against the Mac buyers is showing how disruptive the Neo actually is.
I was at Costco and ran browserbench speed test on the Neo vs several of the windows laptops. The neo beat them all, even the $1199 laptop.
The $500 windows laptop for sale actually performed worse than my 2011 27" iMac running Linux Mint.
Used T model Thinkpad probably? That's the least original advice you're going to get if you ask a bunch of nerds, and these guys know their computers ;)
i don't think it makes much sense to recommend specific craptops, every manufacturer seems to have a bazillion SKUs they reset every six months in that price range... buy whatever's on sale :p
You are right about the first part but I think you're overestimating the number of people that see Apple products as status symbols. Maybe that was true a decade ago but I don't think it is anymore. Enough of the products have found their way to every country imaginable over time that an Apple laptop is... just another laptop.
A fun, brightly colored, relatively inexpensive, Windows-less laptop that you can use for doing your taxes while watching a movie has appeal. The performance isn't that important, so long as it is as responsive as the owner's phone.
People do see a high quality build laptop as a status symbol or a piece of luxury. Not having keyboard flex or general creaks really makes a laptop more enjoyable to use.
I kinda agree with you but consider that the perf on apple silicon is so much better that you’re probably still better off using the gimped tablet thing.
They're fighting to seize the very specific market segment of "I don't like Windows and don't want to use Linux or a Chromebook, and I'm also poor, but still want to pay a premium price for an underpowered tablet with keyboard glued to it."